Week VIII: Achilles or Odysseus?

Socrates’ Inquiry into Human Goodness or Excellence

November 11, 6:00 PM - 7:30 pm

Reading: Plato, Hippias Minor (entire)

What is human excellence or goodness? Who is the model human being? In Plato’s Hippias Minor, we are asked to choose between noble, simple Achilles, and crafty, deceitful Odysseus. Surprisingly, even shockingly, Socrates prefers, with some hesitation, deceitful Odysseus, even going so far as to praise the man who lies and does injustice willingly over the ignorant, artless man who does wrong unknowingly and involuntarily (371e-372a, 372d, 376a-b). This judgment is, of course, at odds with basic morality—as Hippias says, “the laws, surely, are much more harsh toward those who do evil voluntarily and lie than toward those who do so involuntarily” (372a). Socrates disagrees, not only with the sophist Hippias, but with “all Greeks”—even all decent people—for they all bear witness to the wisdom of the conventional moral view (372a-c).

But Socrates wavers in his judgment (376c).

• Does Socrates have some kinship with Achilles?

• Is there something Achilles sees that Odysseus does not? Consider especially the passages we discussed from Week III that Socrates cites, from Book 9 of the Iliad. What hopes do we sacrifice when we act as calculating, selfish, ignoble, limited beings?

• Socrates initially acts incredulous at Hippias’ claim that Odysseus is the liar, and provokes him by claiming that Achilles is in fact the better liar—but Socrates drops his act when pressed (371d-e), thereby shifting the debate to the more fundamental question: What makes a human being good? Is it honesty or intention (“free will,” a voluntary act, 371e-372a)? However, one might still wonder if Achilles was not the greater “liar” in the sense of being an unwitting (involuntary) “boaster”: He thought he was ready to sacrifice the noble or heroic life—to leave Troy and return to private life (1.169-171, 9.356-363)—but in the end, he wasn’t. Why did Achilles fail in his resolve?